Reporter’s notebook: Hey Canada, we know relations are strained. Can we talk?
An MPR News road trip to Thunder Bay found Canadians distressed over Trump tariffs, threats
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For generations, Minnesotans and Canadians got along. We’ve never needed to work too hard at the relationship. We didn’t talk about it much, and it was good, mostly. Until this year.
This year, President Donald Trump targeted Canada with “51st state” taunts, accusations of ignoring drug trafficking and now tariffs that threaten the health of economies on both sides of the border.
Suddenly, an easy relationship turned painful. We felt it during a live talk show on tariffs I hosted recently on MPR News with Chris Farrell, our senior economics contributor. A call came in from Gary, a listener from Calgary, Alberta, who told us that because of the trade war, Canadians in his community were talking differently about Americans.
I realized then we hadn’t listened enough to Canadians, and we needed to.
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Chris and I got the OK from MPR News to load up an SUV and drive up the North Shore along U.S. Highway 61 to cross the border and talk with Canadians living in the city of Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Two colleagues came along: audio engineer Alex Simpson ensured the quality of our recordings and took photos, and reporter and producer Feven Gerezgiher, part of the MPR News Reverb team that connects younger people to the news, shot video for the MPR News YouTube channel and our social media accounts on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.
We interviewed Canadians and Minnesotans in parking lots, liquor stores, coffee shops and other gathering spaces. We started conversations about bonds that are strained now like never before, but not yet broken.
‘Elbows up’
It’s about a six-hour drive to Thunder Bay from St. Paul. Getting there takes you through Minnesota’s North Shore towns, including Grand Marais.
We pulled into Grand Marais and parked in front of the Java Moose coffee shop. The first parked car I walked past had Ontario license plates, a sign of how linked the countries are here — one community, where people go back and forth for goods, services and entertainment.
I waved at the two women sitting inside and started a conversation.
Sarah Prenger, 26, and her mother Donna, 56, live in Thunder Bay. They’d driven roughly 90 minutes to Grand Marais because Sarah’s 1-year-old cat Noodle needed a veterinarian. He apparently ate something he shouldn’t have and required surgery.
“There’s not a lot of veterinarian clinics in town that are taking new patients, so a lot of folks in Thunder Bay take their cats and dogs and pets down to Grand Marais to access veterinary services,” Sarah said.
The pair explained it’s very typical for residents of these two small cities to go back and forth for services or products they can’t find at home, or to enjoy restaurants and other entertainment.
And when I asked about the turmoil created by tariff talks, they told me that folks are tense and even changing their travel plans to avoid visiting the United States.
“I do know from a lot of people that are close to me or friends, they are choosing not to travel right now just because they are a little bit scared,” said Donna.
She added there are rumors circulating about Canadians not being welcome in the U.S. any longer and possibly even being detained, and she believes businesses on both sides of the border will be affected.
As for Trump’s remarks about Canada becoming our 51st state, she referred to a hockey term that people use in her circle.
“I think they would all say ‘elbows up.’ But I think we’re very happy being Canadian. We love visiting the U.S., but I think we want to stay Canada.”
‘Worst rumor I could ever hear’
Inside the coffee shop, we talked with owner and manager Sarah Jorgenson-Hallberg. Her family has owned the business since 1999. She said typically 25 to 30 percent of her business is Canadian, but she’s already noticed a change.
“There are a lot less Canadians right now,” she said. “Part of that is sort of a feel of Canadian nationalism and pride to support Canadian brands and to stay within Canada, and then also that fear of rising costs is a big factor.”
“The Canadian dollar diminished a little bit in the last six to eight months, so that’s impactful as well,” she added. “So it’s just more expensive for our Canadian visitors to come down, and then our costs rise and we’re going to have to raise our prices in the next couple of weeks.”
Jorgenson-Hallberg went on to describe the close relationship between residents of the two cities and worries that it’s changing.
“So we had a phone call yesterday from a woman in Canada who said ‘I heard a rumor that Java Moose was not welcoming Canadians right now.’ I was like, that’s the worst rumor I could ever hear, because I don’t ever want to be seen as not welcoming. And I said, no, please dispel that rumor,” Jorgenson-Hallberg told me.
Down the block at the Grand Marais municipal liquor store, I talked to store manager Chris LaVigne.
He talks to customers from both sides of the border as they come to stock up for getaway weekend stays or longer vacations. He told me about 35 percent of his customers are from the Thunder Bay area.
“Yeah, we’ve actually gotten probably three or four phone calls from Canadians that are wondering if they’re still welcome in America, which I think is crazy,” LaVigne told me.
He said his customers and his friends have all been talking about tariffs.
“It sucks. I mean it really does. They’re our neighbors. We do a lot of things in Thunder Bay versus Duluth because it’s 30, 40 miles closer, you know. And when the exchange rate is great, why wouldn’t you go there?” LaVigne said.
He’s heard about the liquor stores across Canada that have pulled American made liquors and wines from their store shelves and told us that if the tariff increases take effect, American shoppers should expect to pay more for their favorite Canadian whiskeys like Crown Royal as well as tequila from Mexico.
‘Just disrespectful’
At the international border, agents checked the documentation of all our audio recording equipment. We cleared customs and took a few pictures in front of the Welcome to Ontario sign.
The next day started on the campus of Lakehead University in Thunder Bay where we interviewed economics professor Livio Di Matteo. He provided some historical context to tariffs and described the change he sees in the relationship between the U.S and Canada.
“I think what’s different this time is that the commander in chief has been more vociferous and vocal than one might have expected,” he said. Usually, there’s been a lot more diplomacy in the exchanges. The current commander in chief is certainly much more blunt and in your face,” he said. “We’ve always known we were the junior partner, but usually you guys were polite about it.”
Silas Young, a 25-year-old law school student at Lakehead who grew up in Thunder Bay and has traveled the U.S., said Trump’s goading about Canada becoming the 51st state troubled him, especially.
“We are a strong, prominent nation with a rich history, and we are not simply reliant on the United States,” he said. “There has always been an idea that we would grow together as nations, and the idea that he would simplify that relationship into that disrespectful 51st state analogy is just disrespectful.”
We headed over to Java Hut, a popular coffee shop in Thunder Bay. Chris and I sat and talked with Charla Robinson, president of the Thunder Bay Chamber of Commerce, who described how people across Canada are intentionally buying products made outside the U.S.
In a nearby grocery store parking lot, we approached shoppers who were loading bags of groceries into the backseats and trunks of their cars and SUVs. I met Brenda who had just shopped inside and had this to say about Trump’s leadership.
“It’s awful. I have a hard time even watching him. He’s not just picking on Canada, he’s picking on every country, and it’s awful. And I am sorry that our American friends would actually accept him as a leader once again,” said Brenda, who asked us not to use her last name.
And I talked with a man who said he grew up in India and had recently moved to Thunder Bay for a job.
Bhargav Malaviya said he is a Trump supporter.
“I personally like him. I like him because being an Indian citizen, we really have a good relationship with the State. My prime minister really loves that person, and I think President Trump also likes our prime minister,” Malaviya said.
He added “President Trump, after winning, he told the people that he is making America again. I really think so. He’s really making, I know there’s so many stuff going on, tariffs, people, the stock market is going up, up and down, but I think so. He’s doing something for this country, for sure,” he said.
Chris and I took a walk along the waterfront of Thunder Bay. We wandered through a nearby neighborhood and found a liquor store.
We walked in and asked where we could find bourbon, fully aware that the most popular bourbon is made in Tennessee and Kentucky.
A store worker pushing a shopping cart as she restocked shelves came to our aid.
Without hesitation she told us “the U.S. liquor is in jail.”
She said it was stored in boxes in the basement of the building and quickly whipped out her phone to show us pictures of cardboard boxes stacked up to the ceiling with yellow tape running across it with the words “Do Not Cross.”
She added that “even the Bacardi rum is down there because it’s from Puerto Rico,” a U.S. territory.
Chris told her we were journalists from Minnesota. She didn’t want to be interviewed but said they’d started pulling American wines and liquor off the shelves about two months ago because of the tariff threats, and that stores without the space were shipping boxes of liquor back to their distributors.
‘Hard to watch this’
Saturday morning we had breakfast at Sweet North Bakery where we interviewed an entrepreneur who works in the import and export business.
James Foulds told us that some business owners are choosing not to wait and see what the Trump administration plans to do with tariffs. They’re done with economic uncertainty and seeking more solid ground.
They are searching for and finding new partnerships with business managers in other countries. The feeling is that Americans are unpredictable and it’s just too risky to deal with them. Damage has already been done.
Our final stop on Saturday was at the Farmers Market in Thunder Bay where we shopped and bought souvenirs for our family and friends. You can’t have enough maple syrup, right?
As we started the drive home to Minnesota, I cued up the Spotify playlist I’d created for the road trip featuring Canadian artists. I made sure Chris had a good dose of Justin Bieber, Alanis Morissette, Celine Dion, Drake, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young and more.
Late that night when I was back home in St. Paul, I started to reflect on what I’d learned both in Thunder Bay and in Minnesota towns right across the border, like Grand Marais.
What stands out to me is this. Many Canadians feel betrayed and believe rebuilding trust takes time.
As the U.S. and Canadian elected officials decide what will happen with tariffs, residents are not simply waiting and watching. They are changing their spending and shopping habits and changing travel plans to avoid the U.S.
Small business owners are actively seeking new business partners and looking at new ways of doing things.
Canadian patriotism is more visible and more vocal.
Listening back to that first conversation about tariffs on the radio that launched our journey, I think Gary from Alberta captured in a few moments what we’d heard over days.
“We are loyal Canadians. We love our country just like you love yours. We all have friends and relatives just across the border,” he said. “We are two countries in a really good, close, neighborly relationship. It’s hard to watch this.”