Union leader: Return-to-work plan for state employees ignores ‘new reality’ of workplace

[MUSIC PLAYING] NINA MOINI: It's our top story this afternoon on Minnesota Now. Starting June 1, state agency employees will be required to work in-person for at least 50% of their scheduled work days each month. Governor Tim Walz announced the change yesterday. Remote work, we all know, spread widely across the workforce when the pandemic began, and many state employees have maintained that setup or work in a hybrid format.

Unions representing state workers are criticizing the Governor's decision. Megan Dayton is the President of the Minnesota Association of Professional Employees, known as MAPE, and a senior demographer for the state. Thanks for your time this afternoon, Megan.

MEGAN DAYTON: Yeah, thanks for having me, Nina.

NINA MOINI: For starters, I'm curious to know if your union or you in your capacity and your work were surprised by this announcement. Were you expecting it? What was your reaction?

MEGAN DAYTON: We were very surprised. We had no advance notice, and it seemed completely out of left field. Our partners didn't know about it, and we weren't involved in the decision-making process that led to this decision either.

NINA MOINI: OK. Do you know why the date of June 1 was selected? What is your understanding of that? Because we reached out to Governor Dayton and his office said he was busy, couldn't be on with us this hour, but didn't answer the question of why June 1. So we're still digging into that. Do you have an understanding of why?

MEGAN DAYTON: I don't we have more questions than answers at this point, Nina. Our fiscal year with the state ends at the end of June, not the beginning. So we don't understand the June 1 date either, but we would like answers to that, I think, just like you.

NINA MOINI: So what would your preference be on behalf of your union? Because this is coming up now in two months. Would you have wanted more of a notice, say, six months or a year? Or are you all wanting it to not change completely?

MEGAN DAYTON: Well, I think this order from the Governor is not reflective of the new reality of the workplace, which is hybrid, by and large. In both the public and the private sector, many people are working, to some extent, from home or from a location that is not their primary work location. And we have found that employees, our members, are more efficient in their work when they can control their workplace and the work environment that they're in.

Our preference, if this decision had to be made, was obviously to be included in the decision-making process, in the conversations that led to some of these decisions, and the big decision itself to call people back into the office. But at the end of the day, we want the State of Minnesota to be a good employer, and a good employer recognizes the reality of what it's like to be a worker. And that includes hybrid and telework. So we want to see a continuation of what we have been doing for the last five years.

NINA MOINI: And in the statement the Governor's Office released, they said 60% of state employees already work in-person and did so through the entirety of the COVID-19 pandemic. They said that this helps with flexibility and collaboration. And also, the vitality of downtowns. I've heard that before related to-- when people were talking about should companies go back to work? Should Target go back to work in Downtown Minneapolis? What do you think about the idea of workers coming back to work in part so that it helps to boost the economy and the functionality of our downtowns?

MEGAN DAYTON: Yeah, it's a great question. I want to be clear that we've been working the whole time. So this is a return to the office order, and it's being driven by a need for what our Governor is calling increased collaboration and being stewards of the spaces that they have. But our members have been working all through the pandemic, and they've done it efficiently. And we don't know, necessarily, what is driving this decision to bring people back into the office, but we do see a lot of empty spaces around Downtown St. Paul in particular. And frankly, it's not the responsibility of public sector employees to fuel Downtown St. Paul.

NINA MOINI: So two things are going to happen, right? You're going to start negotiating your next contract, I understand, coming up in April, but that wouldn't necessarily apply to what's going on coming up in June, correct? So what actions is MAPE or other unions that you've heard of considering to try to address this and maybe change it? Or have you thought that far ahead?

MEGAN DAYTON: We've started. This was a total surprise to us, as I mentioned. So we've been thinking starting yesterday about how to address this situation, and more long-term, how our members can have control over their workplaces. We do have contract negotiations, so I'm sure this will be a big part of it. We have existing contract language that gives our members the right to a meeting with their supervisor, and an appeal process when telework options change for individual employees. So we'll be encouraging people to use all of the avenues that are currently available to our members, but nothing's off the table for us, including litigation.

NINA MOINI: What about folks who say, well, everybody was able to figure it out before the pandemic. It's been five years. What do you think about some of that type of feedback?

MEGAN DAYTON: I think it's not realistic at this point. It has been five years. Five years is a very long time. We have some people in state service that have never worked in-person because they came into state service during the pandemic. And we figured out how to do this. We've been able to recruit people from all over the state. And people who were previously living in metro areas have been able to have the flexibility to go live in a more rural place and have their dollars fueling a more rural economy, which we desperately need here in Minnesota.

And so saying we could figure it out before the pandemic, yeah, we could figure things out before we had cars, too, but we don't need to do that anymore because we have vehicles that allow us to travel more rapidly. So the workplace is evolving. And this order from the Governor is moving us backward, I think, in the name of fueling real estate developers and people with these spaces that are now empty. And it really feels like it's an attempt to return back to more traditional funding streams before the pandemic, and it's being put on the backs of dedicated public servants when it should not be.

NINA MOINI: One, just because you mentioned rural living and living farther from work, my understanding is the policy change, as it stands now, provides an exemption for employees who live more than 75 miles-- so like an hour or so away from work. But as I was reading the Frequently Asked Questions from the state, a lot of it seemed like check in with your supervisor, check in with your department. What are you thinking about some of the unclear portions of this policy?

MEGAN DAYTON: I think that's where our frustration really comes in to how this was developed and the opaqueness around the development of this order and this decision. Unions, what we stand for is the equal and fair treatment of all of our members. And so the provision in the order for employees who are 75 miles or more away from their primary work location, puts the decision-making back into the hands of a direct supervisor or an agency-level decision maker.

And so it relies on a positive relationship with the employee. So if that's not there, the supervisor, in theory, could make a decision based on what's in this order to not allow an employee to work more than 50% of their time at home if they live 75 miles away. It really flies in the face of everything that we stand for as a union to make sure that our members-- and all employees are treated fairly.

NINA MOINI: And Megan, before I let you go, could you give people an idea of just who all makes up MAPE? It sounds kind of like, oh, these people work from the state, but that's a really wide group of folks. What are some of the positions that are included here?

MEGAN DAYTON: Yeah. We represent about 18,500 professional-level executive branch employees. And we like to say we cover everybody from accountants to zoologists. We have accountants in the Department of Revenue. We have zoologists at the at the zoo. We have epidemiologists in the Department of Health. We cover case managers in the Department of Corrections, some direct care and treatment people in the Department of Human Services. It's a very wide range of job descriptions and job classifications in our bargaining unit. But they are professionals in their fields, and many, if not most, of our members have advanced degrees in their field as well.

NINA MOINI: I know you just found out about this, but I just want to know what is the immediate next action for you and MAPE? Are you considering a lawsuit?

MEGAN DAYTON: Well, again, nothing is off the table, but we haven't made any hard-and-fast decisions about what our next step is. I can tell you, Nina, that I've never seen a response like this from our members. I have hundreds of emails and phone calls from people who are desperate to get some answers here. I have single mothers who are trying to figure out daycare because the school year ends right about the time where they're going to have to come back in-person 50% of the time.

I talked to a single mother-- a different single mother last night, who made some calls to daycares around the Twin Cities and found a six- to nine-month waitlist for her children as they're coming out of school for the summer. And so the timeline, even, for June 1 is unrealistic and, frankly, impossible for people to meet. I heard from other people who went down to one car over the pandemic and they're going to have to consider getting another car so that both people can get back to work-- get back to the workplace. So a huge impact, and our people are really fired up.

NINA MOINI: Well, and ultimately in many other fields, people have said, well, what if people just quit or find somewhere else to work that's more flexible? Are you concerned about that?

MEGAN DAYTON: I'm very concerned. We have people that are close to retirement who have said, "I'm not going to deal with this. I'm just going to retire early." We have people that are new to the state who have said, "I came to work for the state because of the flexibility that telework provided, and I'm going to go back to the private sector now because I want to continue working from home."

People at every stage of their career are going to make choices based on this order. This unilateral, and frankly, hypocritical order from our governor. And we're going to lose dedicated public servants. We're also not going to be able to recruit future dedicated public servants because they're going to make choices based on their ability to work from home, which, again, is the new reality of work in this age.

NINA MOINI: Megan, thank you so much for your time today, we appreciate you coming on.

MEGAN DAYTON: Thank you, Nina.

NINA MOINI: That was Megan Dayton, the President of MAPE, and a senior demographer for the State of Minnesota. And just to note again, we have reached out to governor Tim Walz for an interview. He was unable to join us today due to a scheduling conflict, but we'll keep asking.