FRONDO bringing together Hmong and Black cultures of Frogtown and Rondo
May Lee-Yang (left) and Nicole M Smith (right) are the creators of Frondo, an effort to bring the Hmong and Black neighborhoods of Frogtown and Rondo together.
Courtesy May Lee-Yang
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An initiative in St. Paul is connecting and celebrating two of its largest minority populations, Hmong and Black. Aptly named “FRONDO,” the initiative is bringing together the Frogtown neighborhood which has a large Hmong population and the historically Black Rondo neighborhood in a way that’s never been done before.
This Saturday will be one of a series of events spanning a variety of topics and conversations.
May Lee-Yang and Nicole M. Smith are the organizers behind the project. Lee-Yang is a performer and educator and Smith is the founder and CEO of Neuvo Soul productions. They joined MPR News host Nina Moini to talk about FRONDO.
Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation.
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Audio transcript
NINA MOINI: This is Minnesota Now. I'm Nina Moini. Thank you so much for being with us. An initiative in St. Paul is connecting and celebrating two of its largest populations, Hmong and Black residents. Aptly named FRONDO, the initiative is bringing together the Frogtown neighborhood, which has a large Hmong population, and the historically Black Rondo neighborhood in a way that's never been done before. May Lee-Yang and Nicole M. Smith are the organizers behind this project. May is a writer, performer, and educator. Thank you for being here, May.
MAY LEE-YANG: Thank you for having me.
NINA MOINI: And Nicole is the founder and CEO of Nouveau Soul Productions. Thanks for being here as well, Nicole.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Thank you for having me, Nina.
NINA MOINI: Nicole, I'd love to start with you, if I could. Tell us a little bit about how this project and this teamup came about.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes. A little over a year ago, I was attending the Headscarf Stories series at the Humanities Center. And May was leading a workshop around [? Memoir. ?] And there was a Hmong shaman there, and she went on to tell her story. And she mentioned how, while wearing this storytelling quilt, or skirt rather, that it was a means to maintain Hmong heritage, culture, and in many ways, a way to mask things under the guise of the oppressor, ways to map for refuge, to escape, and things of that nature.
And immediately, it sparked this connection to my Black heritage. And I remember my hand and head shooting up simultaneously and waving in the air like a child, like pick me, pick me, pick me! And I said, oh, my goodness, that is the role that Black women have held as griots of West Africa that have transcended and translated across the transatlantic slave trade and a means to maintain our heritage and stories and timelines, marking marriages and births and ways to escape up North during enslavement.
And from there, I waited my turn and came up to May. And both of us of were like, do you remember me? Of course, I remember you. Do you want to do this thing together? And thus came FRONDO. And I love how you described the blending of the names because in trying to think of a name for this project, I was like, OK, the first three letters of Frogtown and the first two letters of Rondo actually come together. And FRONDO. And there it is.
NINA MOINI: There it is. I love that. So, May, you spent part of your childhood in Frogtown. Nicole, you consider yourself a Rondo girl. So let's start with you, May. Tell me, what would you tell folks who don't know Frogtown, aren't from that area? Tell me a little bit about what it was like to grow up there.
MAY LEE-YANG: I mean, well, it's funny, the first thing I'm going to say is not positive because I lived in a haunted house there.
[LAUGHTER]
NINA MOINI: Tell us more.
MAY LEE-YANG: I know. It haunted me so much, I went to graduate school to write a memoir about it.
NINA MOINI: Oh, wow.
MAY LEE-YANG: But I still live in St. Paul. I moved to the east side as an adult. But I think that what's really significant for me as a Hmong person and Southeast Asian person about Frogtown is that it's actually where a lot of families came here, right? My family came here in 1979, as many Southeast Asian refugees did. And so the neighborhood now is nicknamed Little Mekong. And it's home. It's home to shops, restaurants.
I feel like it's not just a place for my past. It's also a place that is a holder of history, all the histories. I'm approaching this as a Southeast Asian person. But one of the things I mentioned to Nicole, so there's good food, cool culture, and a lot of really fun, interesting things happening there. And I think this is just one of them.
NINA MOINI: Sure. And, Nicole, tell me a little bit about Rondo, for folks who don't know.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yeah, so Rondo is an historically Black neighborhood that has birthed so many change-makers. August Wilson has spent time there. You have people like Roy Wilkins. You have bands such as Mint Condition and Sounds of Blackness. And you have just a lot, a lot, a lot of people doing impressive work there. And it was a place, during the first and second waves of the Great Migration, where millions of Black Southerners came up North and sought refuge from things such as Jim Crow and post-Reconstruction and things of that nature.
NINA MOINI: Yeah.
NICOLE M. SMITH: And so Rondo became a place for Black business, schools, churches, and a landing spot for many places and people to come and find familiarity amongst a foreign land, kind of a tundra such as St. Paul, Minnesota.
NINA MOINI: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I just want people to have a little bit of context who may not know about these are really important communities in St. Paul and in our state. May, I'll kick this over to you. Why did you want to create a space in particular for Black and Hmong people to come together?
MAY LEE-YANG: Yeah, I mean, when Nicole and I spoke, I mean, it was just like, I suppose-- I'm going to use the term kismet because I feel like for me, it was a very natural connection. Growing up, I lived among Hmong and Black folks when I went to school. I went to school with, again, Hmong and Black folks. I mean, everyone else, too.
But one of the things I said to Nicole is that our communities have lived by each other, worked with each other, talked about similar struggles. And yet, because of the way we look on the outside, it's easy for folks, outside folks as well as folks within our own communities, to think about only differences. And I feel like there are so many connections. And for example, sometimes I've heard people say, why do Hmong people listen to hip hop? I'm like, well, people my age grew up in the '90s.
NINA MOINI: Yeah.
MAY LEE-YANG: And it was just really good music, right? And so I feel like there are all these questions or why do these folks do this. And I feel like there seems to be an assumption that certain things are only within the realms of certain communities. And Nicole already mentioned the connection between the Hmong story cloth and quilting and other things for Black folks. And I feel like we need to make those connections. Because as artists, we can see those connections. But I feel like other folks in our communities might need a little bit of nudge.
NINA MOINI: Yeah. So, Nicole, before we've got to go in a couple minutes, I just want to make sure that people understand what the collaboration looks like. I understand you have events scheduled through April, hoping to get some more funding so that you could have more events. But what can people expect, Nicole?
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes, I also am a writer. So I love alliteration. So it's about food, and fellowship, and about foundationary connection. And so this Saturday, we're actually going to have Miss Antoinette Williams and Bai Thao lead a workshop around healing through wellness and ancestry, wisdom. And so learning how to make fire cider, which is so pertinent during this time of year, a holistic way of healing and building up the immune system.
And it's really beautiful because Bai's family has been a part of the Hmong markets and St. Paul farmer markets and things like that. And so utilizing some of those herbs and things of that nature and building something that Miss Antoinette uses, such as fire cider, and has been doing that for decades. So that's this Saturday where folks can come through. It's free and open to the public. We have 30 spots. So please RSVP. And it's a great time. And then in February--
MAY LEE-YANG: Oh, can I also make a plug, too, that we're bringing snacks from Flava Café on University and Dale. And our event is going to be at the XIA Art Gallery, which is operated by Asian Economic Development Association. So we're trying to be on brand for everything.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes.
MAY LEE-YANG: Sorry, Nicole. You can move on to the next one.
NINA MOINI: No, that's OK. You got to plug the snacks. So I'm understanding it's events that are chill and easy and organic and bringing together people's different traditions and learning about one another. And I just want to thank you both so much for coming on and talking about this effort. And I wish you the very best. And we'll make sure everybody gets the information for how they can participate.
NICOLE M. SMITH: And can I also plug our funder, the Metropolitan Regional Arts Council, because the arts are at the core of every iteration of this series. So February, there's going to be more art with quilting and then a culmination in April. So there's information floating out there. So thank you very much.
NINA MOINI: Thank you, May and Nicole. Appreciate you both. That was May Lee-Yang and Nicole Smith, organizers behind FRONDO, a collaboration of Hmong and Black cultures of Frogtown and Rondo and St. Paul. More information on that at mprnews.org. Have a great rest of your afternoon.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAY LEE-YANG: Thank you for having me.
NINA MOINI: And Nicole is the founder and CEO of Nouveau Soul Productions. Thanks for being here as well, Nicole.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Thank you for having me, Nina.
NINA MOINI: Nicole, I'd love to start with you, if I could. Tell us a little bit about how this project and this teamup came about.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes. A little over a year ago, I was attending the Headscarf Stories series at the Humanities Center. And May was leading a workshop around [? Memoir. ?] And there was a Hmong shaman there, and she went on to tell her story. And she mentioned how, while wearing this storytelling quilt, or skirt rather, that it was a means to maintain Hmong heritage, culture, and in many ways, a way to mask things under the guise of the oppressor, ways to map for refuge, to escape, and things of that nature.
And immediately, it sparked this connection to my Black heritage. And I remember my hand and head shooting up simultaneously and waving in the air like a child, like pick me, pick me, pick me! And I said, oh, my goodness, that is the role that Black women have held as griots of West Africa that have transcended and translated across the transatlantic slave trade and a means to maintain our heritage and stories and timelines, marking marriages and births and ways to escape up North during enslavement.
And from there, I waited my turn and came up to May. And both of us of were like, do you remember me? Of course, I remember you. Do you want to do this thing together? And thus came FRONDO. And I love how you described the blending of the names because in trying to think of a name for this project, I was like, OK, the first three letters of Frogtown and the first two letters of Rondo actually come together. And FRONDO. And there it is.
NINA MOINI: There it is. I love that. So, May, you spent part of your childhood in Frogtown. Nicole, you consider yourself a Rondo girl. So let's start with you, May. Tell me, what would you tell folks who don't know Frogtown, aren't from that area? Tell me a little bit about what it was like to grow up there.
MAY LEE-YANG: I mean, well, it's funny, the first thing I'm going to say is not positive because I lived in a haunted house there.
[LAUGHTER]
NINA MOINI: Tell us more.
MAY LEE-YANG: I know. It haunted me so much, I went to graduate school to write a memoir about it.
NINA MOINI: Oh, wow.
MAY LEE-YANG: But I still live in St. Paul. I moved to the east side as an adult. But I think that what's really significant for me as a Hmong person and Southeast Asian person about Frogtown is that it's actually where a lot of families came here, right? My family came here in 1979, as many Southeast Asian refugees did. And so the neighborhood now is nicknamed Little Mekong. And it's home. It's home to shops, restaurants.
I feel like it's not just a place for my past. It's also a place that is a holder of history, all the histories. I'm approaching this as a Southeast Asian person. But one of the things I mentioned to Nicole, so there's good food, cool culture, and a lot of really fun, interesting things happening there. And I think this is just one of them.
NINA MOINI: Sure. And, Nicole, tell me a little bit about Rondo, for folks who don't know.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yeah, so Rondo is an historically Black neighborhood that has birthed so many change-makers. August Wilson has spent time there. You have people like Roy Wilkins. You have bands such as Mint Condition and Sounds of Blackness. And you have just a lot, a lot, a lot of people doing impressive work there. And it was a place, during the first and second waves of the Great Migration, where millions of Black Southerners came up North and sought refuge from things such as Jim Crow and post-Reconstruction and things of that nature.
NINA MOINI: Yeah.
NICOLE M. SMITH: And so Rondo became a place for Black business, schools, churches, and a landing spot for many places and people to come and find familiarity amongst a foreign land, kind of a tundra such as St. Paul, Minnesota.
NINA MOINI: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I just want people to have a little bit of context who may not know about these are really important communities in St. Paul and in our state. May, I'll kick this over to you. Why did you want to create a space in particular for Black and Hmong people to come together?
MAY LEE-YANG: Yeah, I mean, when Nicole and I spoke, I mean, it was just like, I suppose-- I'm going to use the term kismet because I feel like for me, it was a very natural connection. Growing up, I lived among Hmong and Black folks when I went to school. I went to school with, again, Hmong and Black folks. I mean, everyone else, too.
But one of the things I said to Nicole is that our communities have lived by each other, worked with each other, talked about similar struggles. And yet, because of the way we look on the outside, it's easy for folks, outside folks as well as folks within our own communities, to think about only differences. And I feel like there are so many connections. And for example, sometimes I've heard people say, why do Hmong people listen to hip hop? I'm like, well, people my age grew up in the '90s.
NINA MOINI: Yeah.
MAY LEE-YANG: And it was just really good music, right? And so I feel like there are all these questions or why do these folks do this. And I feel like there seems to be an assumption that certain things are only within the realms of certain communities. And Nicole already mentioned the connection between the Hmong story cloth and quilting and other things for Black folks. And I feel like we need to make those connections. Because as artists, we can see those connections. But I feel like other folks in our communities might need a little bit of nudge.
NINA MOINI: Yeah. So, Nicole, before we've got to go in a couple minutes, I just want to make sure that people understand what the collaboration looks like. I understand you have events scheduled through April, hoping to get some more funding so that you could have more events. But what can people expect, Nicole?
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes, I also am a writer. So I love alliteration. So it's about food, and fellowship, and about foundationary connection. And so this Saturday, we're actually going to have Miss Antoinette Williams and Bai Thao lead a workshop around healing through wellness and ancestry, wisdom. And so learning how to make fire cider, which is so pertinent during this time of year, a holistic way of healing and building up the immune system.
And it's really beautiful because Bai's family has been a part of the Hmong markets and St. Paul farmer markets and things like that. And so utilizing some of those herbs and things of that nature and building something that Miss Antoinette uses, such as fire cider, and has been doing that for decades. So that's this Saturday where folks can come through. It's free and open to the public. We have 30 spots. So please RSVP. And it's a great time. And then in February--
MAY LEE-YANG: Oh, can I also make a plug, too, that we're bringing snacks from Flava Café on University and Dale. And our event is going to be at the XIA Art Gallery, which is operated by Asian Economic Development Association. So we're trying to be on brand for everything.
NICOLE M. SMITH: Yes.
MAY LEE-YANG: Sorry, Nicole. You can move on to the next one.
NINA MOINI: No, that's OK. You got to plug the snacks. So I'm understanding it's events that are chill and easy and organic and bringing together people's different traditions and learning about one another. And I just want to thank you both so much for coming on and talking about this effort. And I wish you the very best. And we'll make sure everybody gets the information for how they can participate.
NICOLE M. SMITH: And can I also plug our funder, the Metropolitan Regional Arts Council, because the arts are at the core of every iteration of this series. So February, there's going to be more art with quilting and then a culmination in April. So there's information floating out there. So thank you very much.
NINA MOINI: Thank you, May and Nicole. Appreciate you both. That was May Lee-Yang and Nicole Smith, organizers behind FRONDO, a collaboration of Hmong and Black cultures of Frogtown and Rondo and St. Paul. More information on that at mprnews.org. Have a great rest of your afternoon.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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