Winter Play: Falling ice! Ice climbing in Duluth
Minnesota Public Radio News reporter Dan Kraker ascends a cliff face at Silver Creek Cliffs Thursday, January 19, 2023 north of Two Harbors, Minn.
Derek Montgomery for MPR News
The sport of ice climbing is taking off and Duluth MPR News reporter Dan Kraker gave it a try for the first time. He survived and joins host Cathy Wurzer to tell the tale of his first ice climbing adventure, part of our new Winter Play series.
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Audio transcript
CATHY WURZER: Now, you may remember. Yesterday, we were talking to MPR News reporter Catharine Richert about sled dogs. Now, she didn't race them, but she had the opportunity to drive a sled dog team. And it's for a new series we're calling Winter Play. Reporters from all around the newsroom are venturing out into the outdoors to try out a winter activity that they've never experienced before.
Joining us right now from Duluth is reporter Dan Kraker, who tried ice climbing. Ice climbing, you brave soul, you. How are you?
DAN KRAKER: I'm well, Cathy. Thanks.
CATHY WURZER: Was this your idea, or did someone force you to do this?
DAN KRAKER: Good question. I actually did volunteer. But to be honest, it wasn't really ever something I really had this big urge to do. I did do a little rock climbing many years ago when I was in my 20s. And I did like it, but I didn't love it. And so, when I moved to Duluth, I saw these cool ice climbers, and I thought it looked cool. But ah, I decided I don't need to try that.
But then, when my colleague Kirsti Marohn came up with this idea for this great series we're doing, Winter Play, I thought, well, here's my chance to try ice climbing.
CATHY WURZER: OK. So where did you go?
DAN KRAKER: So I went to a place called Silver Creek Cliff.
CATHY WURZER: Huh!
DAN KRAKER: Which, for folks who've driven-- yeah-- for folks who've driven up the North Shore--
CATHY WURZER: What?
DAN KRAKER: --you know it because that is that big tunnel eight miles past Two Harbors that you drive through. That's Silver Creek Cliff. So if you park on the other side of that tunnel and you walk back along the tunnel-- actually, it's where the highway used to be on the other side of the Cliff before they cut the tunnel. There's a big cliff there that's popular for rock climbing and for ice climbing, too, in the winter.
CATHY WURZER: And of course, we should say that when the old road was there, you'd look straight over. And, Dan, it goes straight down into the lake.
DAN KRAKER: Yes.
CATHY WURZER: That's actually a fairly high cliff.
DAN KRAKER: You're a ways above the lake. It's a beautiful setting.
CATHY WURZER: OK. What equipment did you need? And then, where did you get it?
DAN KRAKER: So first of all, warm clothes, but stuff that you can move around in and be flexible in. It was snowing and blowing the day I was out there. And then you need, obviously, some specialized equipment.
So you need these really stiff kind of heavy duty ice climbing boots. You need crampons that are attached to the bottom of your boots. And they've got this metal spike at the front of them that goes out from under your toe. And that's what you use to jab into the ice. Then you got to have a harness that ties into the rope, and a helmet in case things go wrong.
So I rented all that stuff actually from the University of Minnesota Duluth. They have an Outdoor Recreation Center that rents gear. And it was only about 30 bucks for the day for all that stuff.
But then I had a couple of expert guides, named Dave and Rick. And they provided me with the rest. They had the ice axes and they had the ropes. But most importantly, Cathy, they had the expertise and the experience to make sure that I could do this safely.
CATHY WURZER: OK, good. I'm glad to hear that. You need that, especially if you're going to do Silver Creek Cliff. They obviously have a lot of experience behind them.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah. So their names are Dave Pagel, Rick Kollath. They're both in their 60s. And these guys are the real deal. I mean, they're not guides, but they're well known in the local climbing scene. They've actually been climbing together for 45 years, since they met at UMD. And they've done some of the big famous summits around the world, like Half Dome and El Capitan, the Eiger in the Alps.
And they joked, Cathy, that they learned to ice climb so long ago that they said, oh, we might not even be the best teachers for you because we had to teach ourselves to do it back in the day. But Dave assured me that he could point me in the right direction, which, of course, was up.
CATHY WURZER: Yes. But I'm sure they gave you some advice.
DAN KRAKER: They did, of course. They totally did. So here's actually part of what Dave told me before my climb.
DAVE PAGEL: Whether you're kicking with a crampon or whether you're whacking with an ax, you want to look for concavities and holes and inside corners. You don't want to look for anything that's bulging out that doesn't have ice around it to support it. Because when you hit it, it will just shatter.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah, as a matter of fact, that does happen. I've done it once before. And it seems kind of dangerous, especially, again-- hate to bring it up here, Dan-- but Silver Creek Cliff is a kind of vertical wall. You know what I'm saying. So how did it go?
DAN KRAKER: So it went well. And I have to say. People look at it. They think it looks dangerous. But the kind of climbing I was doing, I was top-roped. So Rick actually set up a top rope to an anchor at the top of the cliff. He looped he looped the rope through an anchor. And that way, I was tied into that. So if I fell, I wasn't going to fall down the cliff. I was going to just hang there.
That's very different from somebody who lead climbs. If they're lead climbing on their own without a top rope, then they're putting in ice screws on their way up and they loop the rope through those. And then, if they fall, they actually peel back off the face until that last piece of protection, that last ice screw, that they put in. So that's a little more dangerous for more experienced climbers.
For me, I was top-roped in. I have to say, I felt very safe the whole time.
CATHY WURZER: OK, good. Was it a workout?
DAN KRAKER: It was a pretty good workout. I was definitely breathing. My calves were burning a little bit. My arms were burning a little bit. I mean, the climb I did, I will say, was an easy beginner climb. So it wasn't this huge workout for me. But I know that Rick and Dave were telling me, on some of these serious climbs, these long climbs, they have to learn to be really fast and efficient. Because if they're not, then their muscles will really fry by the time they get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: How long was it again? How long did it take you to get up?
DAN KRAKER: So it was like it was a 70-foot climb. It took me about 10 minutes to get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: Ten minutes.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: OK.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: Can you take breaks?
DAN KRAKER: [LAUGHS]
CATHY WURZER: I mean, you know.
DAN KRAKER: You can. I mean, you kind of get in this rhythm. And it's really about you get one ice axe in. Then you make sure you got the secure grip. Then you lean back a little bit on your axe. You lift one foot up and you stick one foot in, and you stick the other foot in. Then you can kind of stand up on your feet. And if you've got good grips-- I mean, it's amazing how it just kind of sticks in there, even though they're only stuck in like a fraction of an inch-- and you can hang out a little bit.
But I have to say. I wasn't doing much hanging out. I mean, I was so focused when I was on the wall, I was just trying to get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: OK, that makes some sense. And I'm going to assume you had a good time doing this.
DAN KRAKER: I did. I wasn't like sitting back, hooting and hollering, when I was going up. But let's listen. I have a piece of tape here. I mean, let's listen to this. I reflected on this when I got back down again and talked with Dave and Rick at the bottom.
DAVE PAGEL: Ice climbing, especially if you're a beginner, is what they call type 2 fun. Which is fun that is not necessarily fun before or when you're doing it. But afterwards, you just get a huge rush and a feeling of accomplishment out of it.
DAN KRAKER: That's how I just felt.
[LAUGHTER]
DAVE PAGEL: And I think there's value in that. I think there's value in challenging yourself to do something when you feel like, I don't really want to do this. What am I doing?
And when you're done with it, there's something exhilarating and very exciting to have done this thing, to have tested your limits, and surpassed them somehow. You come back from that thinking that that was quite an experience, and you're glad that you did it.
DAN KRAKER: Getting out of your comfort zone.
DAVE PAGEL: Yeah, absolutely.
DAN KRAKER: I think that's the thing, is it's good for people to get out of their comfort zone.
CATHY WURZER: Type 2 fun, I'm going to remember that. It's like doing radio.
DAN KRAKER: I know, right.
CATHY WURZER: Type 2 fun. [LAUGHS]
DAN KRAKER: Definitely.
CATHY WURZER: Now, on a scale of 1 to 10-- 10 being the best time possible-- how would you rate ice climbing?
DAN KRAKER: 7 maybe-- 8. I mean, I'd definitely do it again, the more I reflected on it since.
CATHY WURZER: OK.
DAN KRAKER: I would like to try maybe a little bit more difficult climb next time.
CATHY WURZER: OK. Well, congratulations. I'm glad you did it. Glad you're safe.
DAN KRAKER: Thanks, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks much.
DAN KRAKER: I am alive.
CATHY WURZER: You are alive. I'll talk to you later.
DAN KRAKER: See ya.
CATHY WURZER: That's MPR reporter Dan Kraker, in our Duluth Bureau. He went ice climbing for the first time as part of our Winter Play series. Check it out by going to mprnews.org. Click on Winter Play. And thank you for listening to Minnesota Now here on MPR.
Oh, Dan Kraker, he is something.
By the way, support for Minnesota Now comes from TruStone Financial Credit Union, dedicated to giving back to the community since 1939. Full service banking is available at 23 locations and online at trustone.org. TruStone is an Equal Housing Opportunity Lender, insured by NCUA.
Oh, say, by the way. If you feel inspired to try ice climbing yourself after listening to Dan, there is something coming this weekend. The Duluth Climbers Coalition is hosting an ice climbing clinic Saturday, February the 4th. You can find more information online, at duluthclimbers.org. There you go.
Joining us right now from Duluth is reporter Dan Kraker, who tried ice climbing. Ice climbing, you brave soul, you. How are you?
DAN KRAKER: I'm well, Cathy. Thanks.
CATHY WURZER: Was this your idea, or did someone force you to do this?
DAN KRAKER: Good question. I actually did volunteer. But to be honest, it wasn't really ever something I really had this big urge to do. I did do a little rock climbing many years ago when I was in my 20s. And I did like it, but I didn't love it. And so, when I moved to Duluth, I saw these cool ice climbers, and I thought it looked cool. But ah, I decided I don't need to try that.
But then, when my colleague Kirsti Marohn came up with this idea for this great series we're doing, Winter Play, I thought, well, here's my chance to try ice climbing.
CATHY WURZER: OK. So where did you go?
DAN KRAKER: So I went to a place called Silver Creek Cliff.
CATHY WURZER: Huh!
DAN KRAKER: Which, for folks who've driven-- yeah-- for folks who've driven up the North Shore--
CATHY WURZER: What?
DAN KRAKER: --you know it because that is that big tunnel eight miles past Two Harbors that you drive through. That's Silver Creek Cliff. So if you park on the other side of that tunnel and you walk back along the tunnel-- actually, it's where the highway used to be on the other side of the Cliff before they cut the tunnel. There's a big cliff there that's popular for rock climbing and for ice climbing, too, in the winter.
CATHY WURZER: And of course, we should say that when the old road was there, you'd look straight over. And, Dan, it goes straight down into the lake.
DAN KRAKER: Yes.
CATHY WURZER: That's actually a fairly high cliff.
DAN KRAKER: You're a ways above the lake. It's a beautiful setting.
CATHY WURZER: OK. What equipment did you need? And then, where did you get it?
DAN KRAKER: So first of all, warm clothes, but stuff that you can move around in and be flexible in. It was snowing and blowing the day I was out there. And then you need, obviously, some specialized equipment.
So you need these really stiff kind of heavy duty ice climbing boots. You need crampons that are attached to the bottom of your boots. And they've got this metal spike at the front of them that goes out from under your toe. And that's what you use to jab into the ice. Then you got to have a harness that ties into the rope, and a helmet in case things go wrong.
So I rented all that stuff actually from the University of Minnesota Duluth. They have an Outdoor Recreation Center that rents gear. And it was only about 30 bucks for the day for all that stuff.
But then I had a couple of expert guides, named Dave and Rick. And they provided me with the rest. They had the ice axes and they had the ropes. But most importantly, Cathy, they had the expertise and the experience to make sure that I could do this safely.
CATHY WURZER: OK, good. I'm glad to hear that. You need that, especially if you're going to do Silver Creek Cliff. They obviously have a lot of experience behind them.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah. So their names are Dave Pagel, Rick Kollath. They're both in their 60s. And these guys are the real deal. I mean, they're not guides, but they're well known in the local climbing scene. They've actually been climbing together for 45 years, since they met at UMD. And they've done some of the big famous summits around the world, like Half Dome and El Capitan, the Eiger in the Alps.
And they joked, Cathy, that they learned to ice climb so long ago that they said, oh, we might not even be the best teachers for you because we had to teach ourselves to do it back in the day. But Dave assured me that he could point me in the right direction, which, of course, was up.
CATHY WURZER: Yes. But I'm sure they gave you some advice.
DAN KRAKER: They did, of course. They totally did. So here's actually part of what Dave told me before my climb.
DAVE PAGEL: Whether you're kicking with a crampon or whether you're whacking with an ax, you want to look for concavities and holes and inside corners. You don't want to look for anything that's bulging out that doesn't have ice around it to support it. Because when you hit it, it will just shatter.
CATHY WURZER: Yeah, as a matter of fact, that does happen. I've done it once before. And it seems kind of dangerous, especially, again-- hate to bring it up here, Dan-- but Silver Creek Cliff is a kind of vertical wall. You know what I'm saying. So how did it go?
DAN KRAKER: So it went well. And I have to say. People look at it. They think it looks dangerous. But the kind of climbing I was doing, I was top-roped. So Rick actually set up a top rope to an anchor at the top of the cliff. He looped he looped the rope through an anchor. And that way, I was tied into that. So if I fell, I wasn't going to fall down the cliff. I was going to just hang there.
That's very different from somebody who lead climbs. If they're lead climbing on their own without a top rope, then they're putting in ice screws on their way up and they loop the rope through those. And then, if they fall, they actually peel back off the face until that last piece of protection, that last ice screw, that they put in. So that's a little more dangerous for more experienced climbers.
For me, I was top-roped in. I have to say, I felt very safe the whole time.
CATHY WURZER: OK, good. Was it a workout?
DAN KRAKER: It was a pretty good workout. I was definitely breathing. My calves were burning a little bit. My arms were burning a little bit. I mean, the climb I did, I will say, was an easy beginner climb. So it wasn't this huge workout for me. But I know that Rick and Dave were telling me, on some of these serious climbs, these long climbs, they have to learn to be really fast and efficient. Because if they're not, then their muscles will really fry by the time they get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: How long was it again? How long did it take you to get up?
DAN KRAKER: So it was like it was a 70-foot climb. It took me about 10 minutes to get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: Ten minutes.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: OK.
DAN KRAKER: Yeah.
CATHY WURZER: Can you take breaks?
DAN KRAKER: [LAUGHS]
CATHY WURZER: I mean, you know.
DAN KRAKER: You can. I mean, you kind of get in this rhythm. And it's really about you get one ice axe in. Then you make sure you got the secure grip. Then you lean back a little bit on your axe. You lift one foot up and you stick one foot in, and you stick the other foot in. Then you can kind of stand up on your feet. And if you've got good grips-- I mean, it's amazing how it just kind of sticks in there, even though they're only stuck in like a fraction of an inch-- and you can hang out a little bit.
But I have to say. I wasn't doing much hanging out. I mean, I was so focused when I was on the wall, I was just trying to get to the top.
CATHY WURZER: OK, that makes some sense. And I'm going to assume you had a good time doing this.
DAN KRAKER: I did. I wasn't like sitting back, hooting and hollering, when I was going up. But let's listen. I have a piece of tape here. I mean, let's listen to this. I reflected on this when I got back down again and talked with Dave and Rick at the bottom.
DAVE PAGEL: Ice climbing, especially if you're a beginner, is what they call type 2 fun. Which is fun that is not necessarily fun before or when you're doing it. But afterwards, you just get a huge rush and a feeling of accomplishment out of it.
DAN KRAKER: That's how I just felt.
[LAUGHTER]
DAVE PAGEL: And I think there's value in that. I think there's value in challenging yourself to do something when you feel like, I don't really want to do this. What am I doing?
And when you're done with it, there's something exhilarating and very exciting to have done this thing, to have tested your limits, and surpassed them somehow. You come back from that thinking that that was quite an experience, and you're glad that you did it.
DAN KRAKER: Getting out of your comfort zone.
DAVE PAGEL: Yeah, absolutely.
DAN KRAKER: I think that's the thing, is it's good for people to get out of their comfort zone.
CATHY WURZER: Type 2 fun, I'm going to remember that. It's like doing radio.
DAN KRAKER: I know, right.
CATHY WURZER: Type 2 fun. [LAUGHS]
DAN KRAKER: Definitely.
CATHY WURZER: Now, on a scale of 1 to 10-- 10 being the best time possible-- how would you rate ice climbing?
DAN KRAKER: 7 maybe-- 8. I mean, I'd definitely do it again, the more I reflected on it since.
CATHY WURZER: OK.
DAN KRAKER: I would like to try maybe a little bit more difficult climb next time.
CATHY WURZER: OK. Well, congratulations. I'm glad you did it. Glad you're safe.
DAN KRAKER: Thanks, Cathy.
CATHY WURZER: Thanks much.
DAN KRAKER: I am alive.
CATHY WURZER: You are alive. I'll talk to you later.
DAN KRAKER: See ya.
CATHY WURZER: That's MPR reporter Dan Kraker, in our Duluth Bureau. He went ice climbing for the first time as part of our Winter Play series. Check it out by going to mprnews.org. Click on Winter Play. And thank you for listening to Minnesota Now here on MPR.
Oh, Dan Kraker, he is something.
By the way, support for Minnesota Now comes from TruStone Financial Credit Union, dedicated to giving back to the community since 1939. Full service banking is available at 23 locations and online at trustone.org. TruStone is an Equal Housing Opportunity Lender, insured by NCUA.
Oh, say, by the way. If you feel inspired to try ice climbing yourself after listening to Dan, there is something coming this weekend. The Duluth Climbers Coalition is hosting an ice climbing clinic Saturday, February the 4th. You can find more information online, at duluthclimbers.org. There you go.
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